), Stable aircraft: "Untitled" (lost the file upon loading after aircraft), Stable jet car: "Untitled" (Lost the file), Speed over land > 350 m/s before veering off the runway, Sometimes Stable Spaceplane: "Hypersonic Experimental". You need to make sure that the Orange axis on the rotate sphere is parallel to your, nose-tail axis. As you would expect, spaceplanes need wings: they have various shapes and dimensions, and they differ basically in lift rating: you will want to have enough lift to keep your fuselage approximately prograde during your ascent to orbit. Your previous content has been restored. Here is your convenient solution to this problem! . As you approach 35-50 km, your aircraft will most likely level itself out, at which point you can try aiming about five degrees above the horizon line. I checked my planes and I found the problem. Next you need landing gear. They sometimes coincide with ailerons on some, more space-economical, aircraft. Nothing bad will happen. Managed to fix it with some different wings; idk what was going on with the other ones but I was just thr FAT aeroplane wings. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Thank you and happy landings. - KSP Matt Lowne 527K subscribers 1.3M views 2 years ago I've wanted. In vanilla KSP, wings have a predefined lift factor. 1. Second try, speed over land reached over 210 m/s and it didn't flip. Thanks for all the help. Slowly pitch up to avoid overheating. . When your spaceplane rolls shortly after touchdown, veers to one side and then explodes on the runway, you have a problem with landing stability. KSP handling death investigation High Winds Cause Widespread Power Outages Ohio . The SSTO I took to Laythe recently has only one minor flaw using this design, I have to raise the landing gear and pull back slightly to take off. In subsequent missions, you may want to launch with less fuel to cut down on cost and make landing a quicker and easier process. A plane is any craft which flies horizontally in an atmosphere utilizing lift primarily generated by wings, winglets, or control surfaces. Landing also often requires rapid deceleration to avoid running off the end of the runway or crashing into a slope when landing on open terrain. Suggest a Correction Copyright 2023 Nexstar Media Inc. All rights reserved. Also note that for maximum efficiency, you should make sure that your horizontal control surfaces are rotated to exactly the same pitch that you've rotated your wings. Subscribe! Besides the good advice others have given, I would also be very careful with that little tailwheel. Mods needed for this aircraft to work: Procedural wings, Adjustable Landing Gear, FAR. This ensures that your aircraft will go up once it achieves a high enough speed, and also helps with placing ailerons. Ideally, you ought to test landing the spaceplane with full fuel tanks and with nearly empty fuel tanks prior to taking your spaceplane to orbit. It is advised to place your control surfaces as far from your center of mass as possible. While it's true that jet engines don't work in space, they offer one large advantage over rocket engines while inside the atmosphere: fuel efficiency. The centre of mass was between the 2 landing gears. See the tutorial below. I thought after buying this I would have all the parts I need to build a small plane that can at least get off the ground, but I'm having trouble. I wanted to develop a plane to check how are the aerodynamics physics working, and went back to the KSC VAB to design a little plane. So I started a new career file after not really playing for a long time and I'm now at the point where I just dropped 45 Science to unlocked Aviation to get some of the plane parts that I need. What you ought to be using is the Swept Wings and Elevon 1s instead of the Delta-Deluxe Winglets. If you have a very short length of runway remaining and your parachutes can't slow you down fast enough, you'll be forced to cut the chutes and attempt a second landing without them. Bit late i know, but i had the same problem. Geometric shape of the body you attach the landing gear to. Privacy Policy. Here are a few pictures of it: Take a picture with center of mass and center of lift turned on. For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. Paste as plain text instead, EDIT: It was the b9 procedural wings. This is an important distinction; a plane with great lift rating but without any control surfaces will fly easily but will be almost uncontrollable. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107795, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107807, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107735, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107761, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484119427, http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484137556, http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/443953434412162923/42B3BB54A6A524CCC2E5C102AD88C8E521790F55/. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Basic_Plane_Design&oldid=97453, In the front of the plane - In this position, the control surfaces are also known as , In the back of the plane, on the tail - The most usual position; usually, close to the rudder. Landing speed (minimum speed for level flight) can be reduced by adding components to increase maneuverability, by using larger wings, by increasing wing angle of attack on the fuselage (3-5 degrees is the recommended range for a spaceplane to achieve the best lift-to-drag ratio [source]), and by decreasing the weight of the aircraft. With a tail-dragger, the plane is already angled up just sitting on its wheels so once the speed is high enough, it should just float up by itself. Maybe ;making the tailwheel less stiff would help, too. Pasted as rich text. If your spaceplane is able to fly and land steadily at low speeds but just you're having difficulty slowing down as you approach the runway, try to reach your desired speed first and then approach the runway in almost level flight. (Yes, you personally, you lucky thing! When you are near the end of the runway, quickly activate then detach them to get the nose pointing up. Alternatively, you can try landing at higher speeds with your nose pointed further down, but this increases challenges with stability and deceleration while on the runway. Try not to place your gears to wings, especially wingtips - if they wobble even slightly, your plane lose the balance. The most dangerous part of a spaceplane flight is returning from orbit. Not sure why you would want that stability for speeds in excess of 200 m/s though, as most planes will take off and land at far slower speeds. Hello, I am having a small problem with a plane I have built. My first test of the plane parts in KSP2.Like and Subscribe for more Kerbal stuffs!#kerbalspaceprogram #ksp2 #kerbalspaceprogram2 #shorts #spaceplane #nasa It's said that takeoffs are optional but landings are mandatory. Everything looks perfectly symmetrical as far as I can tell. if mounted on not struted part). LV-N exceeds 75% of its full power at just 7700m altitude on Kerbin. Such as not producing lift, which is not what you want with a plane. Also, excessive use of the rudder usually causes the plane to spin out of control and crash. Keep in mind that lift rating and control surfaces are not connected: lift rating is basically the capacity of your wings to sustain the weight of your spaceplane, while control surfaces are parts of wing that can be moved to change the flow of the air around the plane and through this change a plane's direction, angle of attack or inclination. Temperature tolerance is the primary consideration for fuselage choice. They sometimes coincide with elevators. And, of course, try to take off and land as slow as possible. So if I start encountering wobble it's time to pull back on the stick and get in the air. You want an elevon on each set of wings. Those and the fixed main gear are NOTORIOUSLY bouncy. If you use an Advanced SAS, and raise your front landing wheel so that it is higher than the rear wheels, by just turning the SAS on and going full throttle, due to the 10 degree angle of the plane, it should eventually take off by itself. Do you have new pics after you moved the rear wheels forward? I have never successfully landed a single aircraft before as they all tend to roll over when landing at high speed. Kerbal Space Program 2's simulation is a lot more in-depth than its predecessor, where it was feasible for any wannabe Goddard to punch through the atmosphere with overwhelming thrust. This thread is quite old. Clear editor. All of these problems can be exacerbated or reduced by adjusting the amount of fuel in your tanks during landing. Aircraft in this game is almost unfeasible, especially in career mode, you will lose all your money before you finally design an aircraft that can even takeoff. Install S5 moon rocket By lightbreaker_64. A good example of this is at the KSC runway when landing on a 90 degree bearing. You can post now and register later. Even with a stable landing, you may find that you don't have enough room on your desired landing area to come to a stop before you reach the end. Note that dropping off cargo from the back with a Mk3 Cargo Ramp is bad for more than one reason. Flying a Space Station through a GAS GIANT! Ideally, the wings should be tilted upward at an angle about 3-5 from the fuselage for optimal lift-to-drag ratio.[1]. if mounted on not struted part) 2. put your main gear slightly behind center of mass. One FL-T100 tank can't power any rocket into space, yet a Shock Cone Intake, a Mk1 Inline Cockpit, a half-filled FL-T100 and a J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine aimed in the general direction of "up" will let you laugh your way past the 70km mark at nearly 1200m/s. To avoid swerving on takeoff and landing, it is strongly recommended to turn off or reduce the strength of the front brake on your aircraft, as well as to reduce the friction control. Landing is hard. wings, unless they're very well braced). It can be helpful to use a slightly taller front landing gear and slightly shorter rear landing gears so that your fuselage points slightly upward on the ground, thereby increasing the angle of attack of your wings while on the ground. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. everytime i make a powered plane, it always flips over and points backwards after i take off. Alright, it's late where I live so I'm gonna hit the hay and come back to it tommorrow, I read on the guide someone sent me and I think it is taht it doesn't have any way of pointing the up, so I'll tinker with some of the wings and see what I can do. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. Necessary for heavy/long spaceplane. If the problem has to do with lift then travelling very slowly, possibly even slower than that, should counteract the effects of lift and you won't drift nearly as much. I've had stability issues in planes where I'd have proper gear setup, balanced weight and lift. I moved the back landing gear to right underneath the COM. You can deploy your chutes just prior to touchdown for rapid deceleration. Wing shapes do not appear to have a significant impact on drag or drag-to-lift ratio at this time, but swept wings are still an easy way to help ensure that your center of lift stays behind your center of mass. Rapiers generally provide less thrust than a Whiplash at speeds below mach 2, but provide more thrust at higher speeds. These should be in the bottom left next to the display of the cost of the aircraft. If your aircraft is burning up during this stage, you may need larger wings to slow you down faster, radiator panels to carry away the heat more effectively, parts with a higher temperature tolerance (like the Mk2 liquid fuel fuselage instead of the Mk1 liquid fuel fuselage), or parts to increase your maneuverability, like RCS thrusters, reaction wheels, or canards and elevons. All rights reserved. While having the same stock parts as in the VAB, spaceplane design is obviously quite different from pure rocket design. I see absolutely no need to be traveling that fast down the runway. A Mk1 Cockpit, two Mk 1 Liquid Fuel Tanks, and then cap the back with a round nose cone (use the A/D keys to rotate it as necessary). I dunno why but this picture makes the one side look like it is tipped in but I know they are straight, I believe it just the angle that the picture was taken that is causing it to look like this. I have built lots of spaceplanes. Some testing is usually required with new designs to determine the best ascent profile. I have created planes that have landing gears place right under the wing tips but they still won't work. You're going to have a bad time. Unfortunately, with only these basic parts, landing on the runway won't be easy; a viable alternative is to throttle down to nothing, then belly-flop in the ocean. Even a small deviation can cause serious instability, making your aircraft bounce and jolt left and right even during takeoff. This aircraft can takeoff at just above 50 m/s and can glide for a few minutes without engine. The issue is my plane rolls very sharply to the left any time I pitch up. So yesterday I was playing some KSP2, and resumed the game from a save where I had landed in Duna. To maximize lift, your aircraft should rest on the ground with the fuselage tilted upward at anywhere up to a 25-27 angle so that the wings will end up tilted back at up to 30. To minimize the risk of such a situation, try to land on a large patch of flat open ground approaching a downhill slope. KSC's runway is slightly north of Kerbin's equator and perfectly flat. These have extremely poor temperature tolerance and will almost inevitably break up during atmospheric reentry. An active front brake can cause your aircraft to rapidly and uncontrollably pivot left or right during landing, and high friction from the front wheel can potentially cause your plane to swerve violently both in landing and takeoff. This page was last edited on 14 April 2021, at 01:04. mods used are OPT for most of the body and the front canards and tail plane, B9 procedural wings for the wings, and mk4 spaceplane parts for the engines. . You can even try refueling it before recovering your spaceplane further increasing your recovering value. It is also said that a good landing is one you can walk away from. Works well on small craft. Elevators are usually places in the front or back of an aircraft, and their function, as the name implies, is to change the pitch of the nose up and down. Or adding a RATO boosters. DO NOT ANGLE THEM! Be warned that if you do not provide sufficient air intakes for the engines you've placed, you may find that some of your engines shut down before others. I was wrong. This aircraft handles smoothly, no matter how you turn, roll and flip this aircraft, it will never lose control. I started investigating why this was happening. I was attaining high speeds on the runway without getting off the ground, which made the plane yaw back and forth. I believe the issue is there is not enough control surfaces to offset this issue, but it comes up very easy so it is not a very big deal. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. For a Mk1-based aircraft, your rear landing gears should not be tightly tucked together on the fuselage. The only drawback to the reduced friction is reduced steering control, so this setting may need to be adjusted when taxiing to/from a runway, but should otherwise be kept minimal for takeoff and landing. T-1 "Dart" engines are unique amongst conventionally-fuelled rocket engines: They have close to the highest efficiency in both vacuum and low atmosphere. FAR says it would take an Angle of Attack of 24.3 degrees at 119 m/s to generate enough lift to get it to take off. And also place them further apart. First of all, since the launch happens horizontally, you will have to include landing gears, and you will most likely want to include jet engines for the first stage for excellent fuel and cost efficiency. I was wrong. Any plane needs speed - so you need thrust (usually). If you pull up and cause the tailwheel etiher to hit the ground if it was already up or push it into the ground if it was still in contact, you will create bounciness. I managed to successfully takeoff and land this aircraft at least 20 times in a roll now and I haven't even lost a single pilot flying this. Why is it doing this? my center of lift is always slightly infront of my mass. I made this aircraft based on real life commercial jet design. - Have enough lift, either by a big wing area or high speed. After a successful touchdown, high-speed motion on the runway (let alone uneven ground) can be unstable, causing the aircraft to careen to one side or the other, potentially resulting in loss of a wing and sometimes the entire aircraft. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. Display as a link instead, After that, you face the challenge of touching down on the ground and coming to a stop safely without rolling and breaking off a wing or taking a nosedive and blowing your aircraft up on touchdown, or rolling off of the runway and into the ocean. To avoid wobble, wheels need to be absolutely vertical, and they shouldn't be attached to something that is likely to flex as speed builds up, as this could also affect the vertical alignment. But, likely guess is your craft is not producing enough lift. Real planes do this as well. * Gear not mounted to parts that will flex (e.g. A relatively low-drag alternative is to use an inverted cargo bay and some hydraulic cylinders with structural panels as a cargo elevator. https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/124380-wing-lift-amp-wing-lift-to-drag-ratio-charts/, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Spaceplane_basics&oldid=100619. This is just a general briefing section with lots of "to do" or "not to do" things: when you think you've got it, check the Aeris 4A tutorial mission to learn how to get into space easily. Upload or insert images from URL. Safety note: Disable the brakes on the front landing gear. Plane spins/lurches to the side during takeoff? Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. If you can maintain level flight at about 30-40 m/s, you should be able to perform an ocean landing if needed. Vice versa a plane with lots of control surfaces will be perfectly controllable (maybe even too much) but may have big difficulties with taking off and landing at reasonable speeds. You can also angle the wings themselves slightly upwards (using WASDQE) in order to make them generate more lift when horizontal. Keep your nose pointed prograde as you descend through the atmosphere. All you need to do is add landing gear (one right before the cockpit, and two on the tips or middle of the wings), and you're done! LV-N engines also have the advantage of using the same liquid for propellant that jet engines use for fuel. However it's huge size can make it tricky to take off from the runway without destroying the engine. When your jet engines stop working, it is time to ignite the old, reliable liquid fuel engine. Here's a quick installment in to the. I'm trying to do some of the surveying and taxi-ing missions because now that's all the games giving me but flying with a regular rockets just not working for me. Plane bouncing on takeoff - Gameplay Questions and Tutorials - Kerbal Space Program Forums Hello, I am having a small problem with a plane I have built. Upload or insert images from URL. This is either a collider or design issue, if the craft doesn't have enough lift initially to get off the ground it will bounce a bit before taking off. Do agree that the rear wheels either need to be brought closer or or the Nenter of mass needs to be move closer to the rear wheels. I have doubled the max stress value for aerodynamics failure in FAR for every category. Similar principles apply when finding suitable landing sites away from the KSC. Or maybe launching it in a vertical, Space Shuttle-style config. If you can give a craft file and a mod list I could take a look. In contrast, if you attempt a landing at the KSC runway on a 270 degree bearing, you run the risk of colliding with the upward slope shortly beyond the runway if you can't slow down initially and then can't speed up fast enough. However, don't bother going overboard with intakes because your engines will still shut off at high altitudes due to the low air pressure regardless of how many intakes you have. Your wheels should now have 0 degree angle between them, meaning they are both. If your Mk3 design jam-packed full of heavy gear can't seem to survive reentry, one option might be to reduce the payload a bit. If you've been able to successfully re-enter on previous low orbit test runs, you should be able to use this method to achieve similar rates of success once you've slowed down sufficiently. For example, having your landing gears located near the ends of the wings is an easy way to ensure that you don't roll and shred your wings when landing or taking off. Hot ground causes air to rise, cooling as it moves away from the heat, which leads to increased density and a resulting fall back down. Note: Some high-efficiency rocket engines lose most of their power and efficiency in low atmosphere. 67K subscribers in the KerbalAcademy community. This makes design easier, eliminating all concern for balancing jet fuel against rocket fuel. 32.5K Downloads Updated Dec 11, 2014 Created Dec 11, 2014. If you're tired of big rockets that use tons of fuel and disintegrate in the atmosphere when coming back to Kerbin, this tutorial is perfect for you! Control surfaces are heavier than wings. (Idea is moot, if you haven't unlocked them yet.) They could go up to 120 m/s on the runway and still not lift up. [KSP 2] I'm trying really hard to make a Mun capable ship but this rocket . However, they are extremely heavy for their power, weighing as much as a conventional rocket nearly 11 times more powerful. I dont really need 200m/s for take off. I removed them and it works fine now. As lift increases you remove some strain on the gear, however you've just increased the amount of sag. One idea I haven't noticed here yet: "wire up" the landing gear, with strut connectors. Your wings provide the lift, and they cant provide lift if your wheels are too far back because then your base is to stable and the craft wont pivot upwards. You should have something called an "Elevon 1"; this will be the moving part for your wings. All the weight is pushed on the middle and it can't pull up. In fact, nothing will happen at all, and that's probably bad, so put an air intake on your plane anyway. For some reason, when the plane is trying to take off and pulling up, the plane begins to bounce on it's front wheels (the back wheel kicks up), which hinders the plane taking off. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. If your spaceplane is difficult to land when full of fuel but easy to land when empty, then it may be helpful to burn off or transfer out most of the excess fuel before landing to make the aircraft lighter. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. All lift-rating means is that the wing section will resist motion perpendicular to its plane. 2. As such, you will need various control surfaces. If rear landing gear are strutted together, or braced to a center point, they are less likely to torque in different directions. But regardless of that, try very hard to let the plane fly itself off the ground without you applying any controls. An aircraft without control surfaces is like a rocket without RCS or reaction wheels - it will hardly turn and will be equally hard to control (perhaps even impossible!). (Source). and our All of them had one thing in common though. Before you can make a successful plane, you must understand what makes a plane go in places other than the ground - the wings. I scoured the entire web for a solution, but found no working solution or at least dont work every time. Otherwise, you can either shift your wings till it's right (though this may crowd them near the back), or you can very slightly rotate the big wings so they're slightly higher near the front of the plane.